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Parry for archers?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Stinga View Post
    I can confirm it works with anything, including bows.

    I just had no idea that it was strength dependant. I'm so used to knowing everything at this game =(

    SagaDev pls!
    Everything? I would be very interested to know if mages can learn it to go with there staff. I was under the impression from the epic post on the old bible, that it wouldnt work with a a staff. Perhaps 1.7 made it so?
    If so i would very much like to learn it on my Darkmage.

    Parry has been debated for years now, i think the biggest problem with it, is it it very hard to see it work.. Maybe its time for t4c to have a combat log, showing what skills were used/casted/or went off.
    Last edited by Ego DT; 04-13-2013, 09:31 AM.

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    • #17
      Such a log exists, but only devs can use it (it gives rather more info than just combat). But I'm no longer a dev, so I can't confirm for the str aspect. But it works for staves as well, at least on RM.
      ~Stinga
      stinga@t4c.com

      Est solarus oth mithas

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      • #18
        You can see when you hit the character and he takes no damage. It's pretty easy to see, especially for archers. Either the arrow misses the target due to dodge, or it hits but deals no damage = parry.
        Abo 1: Major Gump x3 (Archer), Minor Gump x3 (Warr).
        Abo 2: Iva Major Ivy x2 (Warr), Sylver Major x3 (Warr), Ivah Major x3 (Warr), Major Ivy x2 (Archer), Vul Major Ivy x2 (Paladin), Arch Major x1 (Light Mage).
        Abo 3: Major Gump x2 Level 130+ (Warr), Arch Ivy x1 Level 57(Fire Mage)
        Abo 4: Major x2 Level 143+ (Warr), Major Sneeking x0 Level 90+ (Archer)

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        • #19
          Just wondering but what does str do? I Haven't read anywhere there is a str aspects to parry, just sort of curious now.

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          • #20
            Strength increases the chance to parry attacks from other players.
            Abo 1: Major Gump x3 (Archer), Minor Gump x3 (Warr).
            Abo 2: Iva Major Ivy x2 (Warr), Sylver Major x3 (Warr), Ivah Major x3 (Warr), Major Ivy x2 (Archer), Vul Major Ivy x2 (Paladin), Arch Major x1 (Light Mage).
            Abo 3: Major Gump x2 Level 130+ (Warr), Arch Ivy x1 Level 57(Fire Mage)
            Abo 4: Major x2 Level 143+ (Warr), Major Sneeking x0 Level 90+ (Archer)

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            • #21
              Strength increases the chance to parry attacks from other players.
              Not that I specifically doubt you or anything, but I'd like to see this confirmed and ratio'd.
              ~Stinga
              stinga@t4c.com

              Est solarus oth mithas

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              • #22
                Ok since so many people seem to believe STR is the primary factor for your Parry I will conduct my test again. The first round of tests, done by myself only, show some interesting results. It is rather weird testing this particular skill yourself and would be much much easier with a partner to help keep track of the statistics. The parry skill is not mentioned in the DEV mode, however you can see Damage vs TRUE damage. This test is in no way definitive. Further study would be needed.

                Target Character tested with 0 Dodge, 15 attack, 15 archery, 100 parry-200 parry, 25 all stats minus the stat changed for testing, and no equipment. Attack Character 25 all stats, 500 archery, NO AP SB PB.

                Anyway the basic results I got were:
                Parry 100 Str 25
                Parry 100 Str 100
                Parry 100 Str 500
                All seem to have the same or similar number of Parry attacks take place out of 100 hits.
                Parry 100 Str 1000
                Parry 100 Str 2000 -----> 20000 Str
                There were around 1-3 more Parrys in this situation. But that could be due to chance.
                Parry 200 Str 25
                Parry 200 Str 100
                Parry 200 Str 500
                More Parry attacks with the increase in Parry skill than with the increase in STR stat.

                Now I went out on a limb here and test the same things but with AGI as the primary stat instead of STR. STR was set back to 25.
                Parry 100 Agi 100
                Parry 100 Agi 500
                Parry 100 Agi 1000
                I noticed many more Parry strikes as I increase the AGI from 100 to 1000. This was very noticeable without even keep track of the parries. It just happened much more. With the increase in Parry skill to 200 as well as an increase in AGI there were significant more parry but it seems to almost plateau. I stop keeping track when I got 8 Parry in 20 shots, which was much more than any of the other tests. So I determined this was more significant.

                However I also noticed that some arrows were not hitting the target even with the target dodge set at 0 AFTER increasing the target AGI... Could be the animation does not actually have to do with the Parry skill? My archery stayed the same and I never missed a hit when only increasing STR. Something to think about? Maybe Stinga can shed some light on this. The way I determined a successful parry is when the DEV log showed a hit with no true damage.
                Last edited by Saga Dev; 04-14-2013, 09:58 AM.

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                • #23
                  Thanks for taking the time to have a look.

                  From those results, I think it's fair to say that strength does not affect parry. With most formulas, when pushing stats to their limits (ie >2000 str), if there was an impact you would see it.

                  However, your results seem to indicate that parry is not affected by strength but by agility. That would somewhat make sense, I suppose, and would make an old player very happy (Matrim? I don't know if anyone remembers.. or might have been a TC on RM), the guy who made a 300 str 300 agi AB+3 warrior many many years ago. It is a fact that boosted agility affects weapon speed up to a minimum cooldown between swings. If this has added benefits (such as increased parry and dodge effectiveness), it might be worth a look.

                  As for the agi increasing dodge, it's possible/likely that in 1.7x the formula for a successful attack could include the defender's agi. It's been long said that agi increases the effectiveness of what dodge you have, but it's also possible that it is independent so as to proc a dodge without any actual dodge skill.

                  I would hazard a guess to say that 500 archery is low enough that you could actually see the effectiveness of 500+ agility in the dodge formula, which would explain the misses in your testing. Would be easy to test : 0 dodge/parry+5000 agi on the defender, 500 archery 25 agi on the attacker, see what happens. Then increase the archery on the attacker and see how it evolves.

                  I would postulate a formula such as

                  hit%=10[(target.attack)/((target.dodge)+(0.2*target.agility))]

                  meaning that with 500 attack and 0 dodge and 500 agility, you would get

                  10[500/(0+100)]= 50% chance to hit

                  Obviously my numbers are made up and there is probably some form of random integer involved (involving a minuscule chance to hit if there is any dodge/agi at all), but I think the basic reasoning would make sense. The actual formula would be way more complex (possibly involving other things that have been postulated like day/night and such), but the basic precept is there and would allow for agi to affect dodge% independently from the dodge skill itself.

                  It is also possible that the agility of both the attacker and the defender have an impact in the formula.

                  If you like, I could pop on to Saga next weekend and we can take a few hours to try different things.
                  Last edited by Stinga; 04-14-2013, 05:53 PM.
                  ~Stinga
                  stinga@t4c.com

                  Est solarus oth mithas

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